A German court has sentenced two former Volkswagen executives to prison and handed suspended sentences to two others for their roles in the company’s diesel emissions scandal.
I only have cursory knowledge of this incident, but: It’s possible that was the right outcome. A lot of middle managers do some heinous shit, and then report only positive news to upper management with a “Don’t worry about it” attitude.
We all know there’s also evil CEOs in the world as well, but maybe the investigation found this wasn’t one of them. 'Course, maybe they were just better at keeping plausible deniability.
I mean, apart from the apparent guilt, do you think any country would simply hand over its prominent nationals? If there were a case against an US CEO in Germany, hell would freeze over before extradition.
The point is that the US has gathered enough evidence to get indictments against them. Germany has access to that same evidence and has very similar laws that were violated – but has done basically nothing.
I understand the point, and for the record I also believe those responsible should be held accountable personally. The difficult thing is simply the international character of the crimes committed. If these things are illegal in Germany, perhaps they should be tried under German law and courts.
But I also recognise that’s probably not going to happen due to the people accused having too much (political/soft) power. It’s a real dilemma when we’re talking about white collar crime.
Say for example, I do something right now in my home country, which is illegal for me to do in, say Madagascar, but is legal where I live. The thing I’m doing, I’m doing from my office in my home country. The effect is in Madagascar - is it then reasonable for Madagascar to ask my home country for extradition?
It’s absolutely not the same as what’s happened, but I’m taking it to an extreme to make a point. International laws are really difficult, especially when extradition of nationals is at play… not to invalidate the fact that these people did something very wrong by the way!
Of course Germany won’t extradite we don’t extradite nationals to non-EU countries. It can even happen that we don’t extradite Americans to the US because they can demonstrate that they’re likely to face torture in the US, such as isolation cells.
But they have to be rich, right? I’m interested in the criteria.
What about a nation that supports a company who produces goods that allow the company to make profit, and the production of the goods harms people’s lives (e.g. pollution or poor working conditions in the production country). Somebody should police that nation. Maybe bomb the nation?
In that case the people in charge of both the nation and the corporation need to be removed. The nation can redeem itself once the greed poisoned leaders are dealt with.
But if the citizens didn’t fund the company’s greed, they wouldn’t exist. Plenty of examples of things people don’t need that they continue to buy, and support unethical business operations leading to harm.
Despite what the headline says, no execs went to jail. The two who were punished with jail terms were middle management.
Martin Winterkorn, the CEO, will probably avoid any serious consequences.
I only have cursory knowledge of this incident, but: It’s possible that was the right outcome. A lot of middle managers do some heinous shit, and then report only positive news to upper management with a “Don’t worry about it” attitude.
We all know there’s also evil CEOs in the world as well, but maybe the investigation found this wasn’t one of them. 'Course, maybe they were just better at keeping plausible deniability.
The Board had discussions about how to stonewall California. US prosecutors have filed charges against the CEO but Germany won’t extradite.
They are all guilty as fuck.
I mean, apart from the apparent guilt, do you think any country would simply hand over its prominent nationals? If there were a case against an US CEO in Germany, hell would freeze over before extradition.
The point is that the US has gathered enough evidence to get indictments against them. Germany has access to that same evidence and has very similar laws that were violated – but has done basically nothing.
I understand the point, and for the record I also believe those responsible should be held accountable personally. The difficult thing is simply the international character of the crimes committed. If these things are illegal in Germany, perhaps they should be tried under German law and courts.
But I also recognise that’s probably not going to happen due to the people accused having too much (political/soft) power. It’s a real dilemma when we’re talking about white collar crime.
Say for example, I do something right now in my home country, which is illegal for me to do in, say Madagascar, but is legal where I live. The thing I’m doing, I’m doing from my office in my home country. The effect is in Madagascar - is it then reasonable for Madagascar to ask my home country for extradition?
It’s absolutely not the same as what’s happened, but I’m taking it to an extreme to make a point. International laws are really difficult, especially when extradition of nationals is at play… not to invalidate the fact that these people did something very wrong by the way!
Of course Germany won’t extradite we don’t extradite nationals to non-EU countries. It can even happen that we don’t extradite Americans to the US because they can demonstrate that they’re likely to face torture in the US, such as isolation cells.
The US really like their prisoners, don’t they.
They demand extraditing of prisoners from other countries, but won’t ever extradite to other countries themselves.
Yeah, the second one. It’s the ones prepared to do shit like that who get promoted in the first place.
Removed by mod
Damn, assassination for air pollution is new for me.
The rich choose to exert violence on everyone else daily. This is community defense.
Lying about emissions is violence? Like chemical warfare?
Profit over people is violence. If a single person is harmed by your lie, that is violence against humanity.
But they have to be rich, right? I’m interested in the criteria.
What about a nation that supports a company who produces goods that allow the company to make profit, and the production of the goods harms people’s lives (e.g. pollution or poor working conditions in the production country). Somebody should police that nation. Maybe bomb the nation?
In that case the people in charge of both the nation and the corporation need to be removed. The nation can redeem itself once the greed poisoned leaders are dealt with.
But if the citizens didn’t fund the company’s greed, they wouldn’t exist. Plenty of examples of things people don’t need that they continue to buy, and support unethical business operations leading to harm.
Sounds about right