TRON was an ambitious project to say the least, and after a good start, it suddenly came to a screeching halt.
    • Croquette@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      881·
      7 天前

      One of the biggest lie to keep the current system in place.

      Private corporations parasite themselves into R&D paid for by the government and act like they invented the fire again.

      The Internet is built on FOSS and got captured to be sold back to us.

      Capitalism breeds innovation just like people leave their partner when they finally have enough to be abused.

    • luciferofastora@feddit.orgEnglish
      442·
      7 天前

      Competition breeds innovation. Commercial pressure can be one source of such competition, but isn’t the only one.

      Capitalism abhors competition. It breeds innovation only if it serves to eliminate competition.

      • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.mlEnglish
        151·
        6 天前

        Absolutely correct, Capitalism will incentivize innovation only as long as it’s profitable to do so. Once a company becomes a dominant player in their industry, innovation actually becomes largely unprofitable.

        We can see this play out all the time, this is why industry giants almost never try to outcompete smaller start ups by innovating their products and services, instead, they either crush them out of the market via a bunch of different methods. Or they just buy them out, kill off their IP, or if it’s way better, they just brand it as their own, and usually fire most of the old staff.

        In a Capitalist system, this actually creates a whole new incentive structure where start ups will try to grow as fast as possible with the sole intention of getting bought out by an industry titan, making the founders of the start up filthy rich.

    • jimmy90@lemmy.worldEnglish
      429·
      6 天前

      lemmings blaming everything on capitalism

      also lemmings: scrolling on their apple iphone that also had a gui decades ahead of its time in the 80s

    • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.worldEnglish
      337·
      7 天前

      No this was capitalism in action. Capitalism bred the innovation in TRON.

      Governments getting involved and putting their thumb on the scales to control the economy is the opposite of capitalism.

        • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.worldEnglish
          826·
          7 天前

          Just like the dumbasses say “the Soviet Union wasn’t REAL communism”?

          Except I’m correct. A government implementing protectionist policies to control economic sectors is not capitalist.

          • Terrorphin@thelemmy.clubEnglish
            253·
            7 天前

            Yes it is - capitalism demands that in fact. You’re thinking of free-markets. Capitalism inevitably destroys free markets.

            • partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish
              42·
              7 天前

              Yes it is - capitalism demands that in fact. You’re thinking of free-markets. Capitalism inevitably destroys free markets.

              Lets see if we can agree on some definitions.

              What you’re describing as “free-markets” I know as laissez-faire capitalism. This definition came from, unsurprisingly, the French in the 18th century and was used heavily by Adam Smith in the book The Wealth of Nations. I think we all agree there are very few, if any, true large scale laissez-faire capitalism in operation today.

              What have in most places is regulated capitalism where there are government rules that change the outcome to a different outcome (sometimes better/sometimes worse) that would have occurred under laissez-faire capitalism.

              Are we in agreement with these definitions or do we still have discussion needed to arrive at the same place?

              • Terrorphin@thelemmy.clubEnglish
                5·
                7 天前

                OK sure - if we’re being strict and academic about this - perhaps it would be more accurate for me to say that capitalism in the pure platonic sense doesn’t really exist, and tends always towards crony or state capitalism where the power of the state is used to funnel money and power towards the holders of capital rather than to provide a free and fair playing field for economic actors.

                • partial_accumen@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  81·
                  7 天前

                  perhaps it would be more accurate for me to say that capitalism in the pure platonic sense doesn’t really exist,

                  I agree with this without any reservations.

                  and tends always towards crony or state capitalism where the power of the state is used to funnel money and power towards the holders of capital rather than to provide a free and fair playing field for economic actors.

                  I take exception with “always”. In the USA for example, there have been many notable exceptions where state capitalism implemented protections from abuses that pure laissez-faire capitalism would have allowed. The National Labor Relations Act was a state action that allowed for collective bargaining of workers. More recently the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau acted as an agent against uncheck capitalist forcing a fair playing field.

                  I’d probably agree if you changed your word to “frequently” though.

          • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.worldEnglish
            62·
            7 天前

            Except I never said you were factually incorrect, since that seems to be the most important thing for you to get out of this exchange.

          • SirActionSack@aussie.zoneEnglish
            41·
            7 天前

            Government tipping the scales to help their capitalist mates seems to be exactly how capitalism works.

      • Triasha@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        7 天前

        Government getting involved and putting their thumb on the economy is as capitalist as it gets.

        South Sea Trading bubble, East India Company, Lake Eyrie Canal, trans continental railroad. Teapot Dome.

        The government has ALLWAYS had its thumb on the scale for big business interests and if you think that’s not true I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you.

        Right next to some beachfront property in Arizona.

        • Doom@discuss.onlineEnglish
          14·
          6 天前

          I don’t understand your comment.

          You’re listing things and going “BAD” so Capitalism is bad.

          A trading bubble is really just economics. Can’t really say Capitalism causes that. The East India Trading Company is mercantilism which as evil as that specific company was the idea of trading goods from one country to another is like the core of our entire economic trade system today. Teapot Dome was flagrant corruption which happens in any economic system, the Canal and the railroad are more examples of labor exploitation which you can easily argue was less bad than the labor exploitation that came before it and led to better labor laws in the country.

          It’s like you’re pointing at a gun and saying “FIRE MADE GUN, FIRE BAD!” because guns kill people. It’s pretty caveman.

          • Triasha@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            6 天前

            I mean, capitalist do the same thing with socialism every day. It takes a lot of propaganda to get people to believe that caring for your neighbors = bad.

            • Doom@discuss.onlineEnglish
              1·
              6 天前

              As someone who supports socialist movements I 100% agree. But I really think the big problem in the world right now is the misunderstanding of capital basically. People think capital or money or anything that involves government is capitalism? Or something? I don’t really understand.

              But just because people we might call capitalists pearl clutch about socialism doesn’t give someone the space to do the same back, or really just lie/be ignorant. We can definitely discuss the flaws of economic systems or the system we live under and some solutions. But stamping “CAPITALISM BAD” or “SOCIALISM BAD” literally gets us nowhere.

              • Triasha@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                6 天前

                Hard dissagree, the average American reads at a 5th grade level.

                If you want to have a higher level coveraation, sure, but for general messaging: CAPITALISM BAD is the only thing that will get through.

      • gandalf_der_13te@feddit.orgEnglish
        71·
        7 天前

        No this was capitalism in action. Capitalism bred the innovation in TRON.

        Governments getting involved and putting their thumb on the scales to control the economy is the opposite of capitalism.

        did you read the article? TRON was heavily backed by the japanese government.

  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.worldEnglish
    991·
    7 天前

    That tracks.

    The more I learn about American history the more frustrated I become with our species in general. Our country could be so much more livable now, but for a handful of vulgarly wealthy people who only ever cared about number going up at any cost.

    And to make it worse I’m reading a biography of John D. Rockefeller, so I’m about to hate our species just a tiny bit more.

    • eldebryn@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      3 天前

      While you’re in that mood check the documentary Hypernormalization from BBC. Explains a lot.

      And when it ends check the year it came our for extra oof.

    • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.worldEnglish
      36·
      7 天前

      All of our lives could be so much better. We should stop making dystopian futuristic movies, and start making hopeful ones that help people imagine how much BETTER things could be.

  • GolfFoxtrotLima@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    56·
    7 天前

    It’s time for other countries to create their own operating systems again

    Make other countries create other operating systems again

  • chunes@lemmy.worldEnglish
    28·
    7 天前

    replaced the tree-structured directory hierarchy with an arbitrary directed graph.

    TBH that sounds like a total nightmare

    • Kairos@lemmy.todayEnglish
      131·
      7 天前

      Yeah this OS would suck as soon as the 00s hit with the global Internet. This OS seems completely incompatible with how the world actually works and would probably collapse under its own design by the year 2010. A file is an arbitrary string of bytes. Removing the ability for the user to handle them like this is so obtuse. The reason why we can poke modern OSes the way we can is to prevent requiring a man-year of work every time we need a major new feature.

      The idea was that every layer, from silicon to user interface, would be designed together, with no compatibility debt to existing platforms.

      …which makes compatability debt between it and literally everything else.

      • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        5·
        7 天前

        A file is an arbitrary string of bytes. Removing the ability for the user to handle them like this is so obtuse.

        Per the article:

        According to the BTRON3 specification, the first two halfwords of an application ID are the data type it applies to, and only the third distinguishes rival handlers for the same type. When a document contained writing, a table, and a figure, opening those parts made the system launch each one’s registered handler to draw its own content inside the parent document’s window. If no handler exists, or the handler fails to draw, the system strikes a diagonal line through the region where the content should have been.

        That’s a window manager with application/file associations, with the ‘window’ that the application draws to being embedded within a hypertext document. So, you’d be able to attach arbitrary hypertext to a file and when you open it the window manager presents that information along with the application window. That’s not any less flexible or more limited than any other desktop OS.

        EDIT: now, it sounds like you could embed multiple ‘windows’ within the same document, and maybe do something with transclusion, but I haven’t read enough about how BTRON worked to say much about that. Still, that doesn’t fundamentally change what I wrote above.

          • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            4·
            7 天前

            Every single mainstream operating system has metadata and index stores associated with its files and applications.

            Linux has locatedb and .desktop files, and many other files that determine how content is presented to you in a desktop environment.

            Windows has NTFS alternate data streams, the registry, multiple appdata folders, and a bunch of other kludges.

    • NotSafeForWorld@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      131·
      7 天前

      I dunno, I kinda fw it. Like having a tag-based system for grouping files instead of nested folders does give me less anxiety in organizing everything, and it lessens the bloat due to duplicates

  • jama211@lemmy.worldEnglish
    8·
    6 天前

    I doubt it would’ve won anyway. There were loads of OS’s at that time, most not having the issue of the US government intervening, and none of them won either.

    • BCsven@lemmy.caEnglish
      2·
      5 天前

      Had the japenese not been spooked by the sugestion it waa a threat(which was cleared up as not being one) it totally could have been adopted nationwide, as it was ready to deploy to their schools.

      And today we have BSD as the basis of Apples OS.

      Microsoft has gone from say 85% market share down to the 60s now I think.

      Maybe we will see a day MS loses to Linux since that hit 10% use last month, and has over 15% use in India.

      MS certainly is not helping themselves win lately.

  • CaptainBasculin@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    1·
    5 天前

    Turkey tried to push Pardus (a debian based distro developed in Turkey) in its earliest days as a national OS alternative that on a proposed law would be required to be listed as an option you can choose when buyjng your computer, then Bill Gates stepped in to have talks with the government and that law idea stopped.

    Currently they’re on another push by having it be taught on computer lessons and forcing it on smart boards, but the effects it could’ve gotten back then would be crazy.

  • lemmelemmy@feddit.orgEnglish
    1·
    6 天前

    I remember seeing it somewhere ages ago, might not be correct.

    It was saying the reason why Microsoft was dominant on OS market right now because it was Sony didn’t wanted to invest in operating systems back then.

    • Kairos@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3·
      7 天前

      No, sorry, that will take 10,000 hours of labor to implement and will not support video codecs that were published a decade ago :3

  • OctopusNemeses@lemmy.worldEnglish
    136·
    7 天前

    And once upon a time there were more than three PC graphics card makers. The paranoid schizo US really fucked up scientific and technological progress.

    • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.worldEnglish
      59·
      7 天前

      They rose to the top because they were the only country that could still build things after the rest of the world got flattened in World War II. Then the rest of the world rebuilt itself so the only asset the US had left was economic inertia. They then proceeded to spend decades doing everything they could to increase the value of that inertia by using their influence to encourage policies that resulted the rich getting richer.

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        7 天前

        And when the Eastern Bloc dissolved, government owned corporations got sold off to western ones, for pennies, all to be shut down in a few weeks. If not, usually they got boycotted, because the kids finally could buy western brands, which made you look cool among your peers.

        • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
          3·
          6 天前

          Eastern Europe sold its stuff away mainly because of local corruption. Local factories would get sold as scrap by one wise guy and a couple of his friends in the budding government fresh after a revolution because they could make a quick buck and set themselves up for more similar opportunities. Also “scrap” claim would take a long time to be investigated and never amount to anything.

      • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        6·
        7 天前

        And now it’s over, well it might take a decade or so but Europe is rebuilt and the USA is shitting its pants(not because they’re scared, just because it seems).

    • setsubyou@lemmy.worldEnglish
      211·
      7 天前

      There also were more than two PC platforms (and we barely have two now; Apple was pretty close to going away too). I miss being the Atari ST guy in a circle of people who all had different types of computers. It didn’t last very long but it was way more fun.

    • jimmy90@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      6 天前

      have you heard of Macintosh? you’ve heard of Mac’s right.

      little company called Apple? lol sheeeesh

  • Mihies@programming.devEnglish
    112·
    7 天前

    Something similar happened to Slovene Iskra Triglav computer which was quite advanced for the time (capable of running three different CPUs) but then caught in between US-Soviet cold war/embargo while trying to sell them to Soviet Union.

    • brsrklf@jlai.luEnglish
      80·
      7 天前

      Three CPUs with different architectures on one device sounds crazy. That’s amazing.

      • greyscale@lemmy.grey.oooEnglish
        50·
        7 天前

        PS3 comes to mind

        Though in embedded, thats fairly normal.

        I’ve got a $1 linux embedded SoC that has a 64 bit riscv core, a 32 bit riscv core for running realtime stuff and a low power embedded 6502 on it too because why not.

        • Natanael@infosec.pubEnglish
          5·
          6 天前

          Original Nintendo DS had two different ARM CPUs for DS games and the same CPU the GBA had for direct compatibility.

          • missingno@fedia.io
            5·
            7 天前

            The second CPU is the GBA CPU, but at twice the clockspeed (which can then downclock for GBA games). You’re double-counting it and making it sound like the system had three.

            The 3DS is the real funny one, adding its own new CPU alongside both the DS and GBA CPUs. So that’s actually three.

        • anomnom@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          21·
          7 天前

          OSX (now MacOS) was built and running on PowerPC and Intel for years before Intel Macs were released. I assume the same was true before they released the Apple silicon chips.

          • greyscale@lemmy.grey.oooEnglish
            81·
            7 天前

            Yeah but they weren’t running both in the same device at the same time.

            PPC -> Intel they just recompiled their OS and fixed it up for the x86 platform, then the same for Intel -> ARM

            They did not have a laptop with an x86 processor and a PPC at the same time… though there are some hillariously bespoke accellerator cards from back in the day to do all sorts of strange things.

            That said, laptops are full of microcontrollers with firmware, lots of those will be atmega, st32, 6502 and the like. Things like a WLAN or WAN card will be a little ARM soc of some flavour.

            So it really depends on where you draw the line. If its executing the main workload, I’d say thats the CPU, everything else is a microcontroller enabling it to do that

          • greyscale@lemmy.grey.oooEnglish
            7·
            7 天前

            Its actually not seperate cores, they’re RISCV or ARM, based on a switch. MilkV does that too with one of its chips. They’re mostly the same architecturally, theres something like 10% that gets enabled/disabled with each ISA selection.

            • Don't forget to stay hydrated.🍉🍉🍉🍉🍉@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              9·
              7 天前

              But you can still run both at once. RP2350 datasheet

              From section 3.9 Arm/RISC-V architecture switching:

              There are two processor sockets on RP2350, referred to as core 0 and core 1 throughout this document. Each socket can be occupied either by a Cortex-M33 processor (implementing the Armv8-M Main architecture, plus extensions) or by a Hazard3 processor (implementing the RV32IMAC architecture, plus extensions).

              From section 3.9.2. Mixed architecture combinations:

              The ARCHSEL register has one bit for each processor socket, so it is possible to request mixed combinations of Arm and RISC-V processors: either Arm core 0 and RISC-V core 1, or RISC-V core 0 and Arm core 1.

              Practical applications for this are limited, since this requires two separate program images. The two cores interoperate normally, including shared exclusives via the global monitor: a shared variable can be safely, concurrently accessed by an Arm processor performing ldrex, strex instructions and a RISC-V processor performing amoadd.w instructions, for example

    • hayvan@piefed.worldEnglish
      231·
      7 天前

      Soviets did a lot to harm Eastern Block tech. Bulgarian Pravetz was a clone of Apple ][. Nothing impressive but cheap, functional, domestically produced. Can’t really be exported towards west due to blatant IP violations, but the production capabilities were good enough to produce and export hard drives.

      Except the trade deal with Britain was blocked by Soviets because it was seen as a security threat, and an industry died in its infancy.

      • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyzEnglish
        23·
        7 天前

        There’s another future where Yugoslavia is the birthplace of a free software movement, and homebuilt PCs lower the barrier of entry to anybody with some time on their hands, with software distributed by radio and powerline until the advent of internet.

      • Mihies@programming.devEnglish
        11·
        7 天前

        Iskra Delta was a Slovene (republic) company, even within Yugoslavia. But if you nitpick, then technically it would be Yugoslavia as country.

      • darklamer@feddit.orgEnglish
        10·
        7 天前

        The Socialist Republic of Slovenia was one of the six federal republics forming the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, if you want to be technical about it.

    • Mwa@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      5·
      7 天前

      that computer sounds awesome, imagine something like this existed today(like a computer with a RISC-V,Arm64 and X86-64 CPU) .